the denmother podcast
A podcast about all things motherhood: the gross, the hilarious, the infuriating. We learn from each other, because after all, momming is more fun when we do it together. Hosted by your newest mom friend, the denmother herself, Kyriaki.
the denmother podcast
5.17 Representation with Sarah Tubert & Katelyn Brooke
How cool would it have been to see yourself in a book when you were a kid? For Sarah Tubert, not only did she not see anyone like her in print or on screen, but she didn't see anyone like her in real life either.
At the age of three, a surgeon's error left Sarah with facial paralysis and hearing loss, but Sarah's indomitable spirit led her to overcome these obstacles. Today, not only is she is a series regular on Disney's "Primos," making history as the first Deaf Latina Voice Over actress in an animated series, she also captains the USA Deaf Women's National Volleyball Team and is a motivational speaker and now champions others' differences through a new book about her life called, The Girl with the Crooked Smile.
Co-Author of the new book, and Sarah's best friend is Katelyn Brooke. Katelyn has spent nearly two decades in the entertainment industry, starting as a songwriter before transitioning into stunt performance. With over ten years as a professional stuntwoman, she has always embraced creativity and storytelling in many forms. Now, she is embarking on an exciting new journey as a children’s book author. Her debut book, The Girl with the Crooked Smile, is a heartfelt project, inspired by Sarah and the belief that dreams have no limits and kindness is always in style.
You can learn more about the book on their website.
I'm Kitty Aki. I'm a mom of three, and I'm a good mom, but I'm always learning and growing, and I bet you are too. So join me on my mission to learn from moms from all walks of life because let's be honest, momming is way more fun when we do it together. Welcome to the Dead Mother Podcast. Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of the Dead Mother Podcast, and this one is pretty unique. I mean, you know that this show is primarily talking to moms about mom experiences, but we're kind of going the other direction. We're talking about representation and what that means for a child growing up, but also specifically a young girl growing up into a woman. So let me, before I do any more spoilers, I'll read their bios and then we'll welcome our guests to the show. So Sarah Tuber is a resilient force who transformed adversity into triumph. At the age of three, a surgeon's error left her with facial paralysis and hearing loss. But Sarah's indomitable spirit led her to overcome these obstacles. Today, she's a series regular on Disney's Primus, making history as the first Deaf Latina voiceover actress in an animated series. Woohoo! Beyond the world of entertainment, Sarah captains the USA Deaf Women's National Volleyball team, is a motivational speaker, and now an author. And also, Caitlin Brooke has spent nearly two decades in the entertainment industry, starting as a songwriter before transitioning into stunt performance. These women, I'm telling you. With over 10 years as a professional stunt woman, she has always embraced creativity and storytelling in many different forms. Now she's embarking on an exciting new journey as a children's book author. Her debut book, The Girl with the Crooked Smile, is a heartfelt project inspired by her best friend Sarah and the belief that dreams have no limits and kindness is always in style. Hi, ladies. So nice to have you here. Hello. Hi, thank you for the intro.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:I was just gonna say, I love to see both of you championing each other while I read each other's bios. They were like cheering each other on. Oh my gosh. So love good support. Especially from like female besties. That's true. Unlike anything else. So, first of all, you guys are best friends. We mentioned how did you meet? And Caitlin, did you know ASL when you first met Sarah or did you learn? Tell me everything.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:So I'll take this away.
SPEAKER_02:Um I met Sarah actually on set. I was stunt coordinating a film that her father was actually acting in.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02:And I was in the makeup room checking in with my stunt performer because they were getting some uh special effects makeup done, things like that. And Sarah happened to be in the makeup room at that time. And I I didn't think twice about it. I'm like, oh, she must be on the makeup team, hair squad, whatever. Um, and Sarah, you were you shadowing that day for yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So at that time I wanted to be a makeup artist. So my dad said, Well, the makeup artist would love to teach you, so come on set.
SPEAKER_02:I'm like, great.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So awesome.
SPEAKER_02:So she was in the room, and you know, I was paying attention to my storm performer, and then on my way out, I just noticed her shirt. She had a Burbank volleyball t-shirt on. I don't know, was it Burbank High School or something? Like volley, I think. Burbank High School volleyball t-shirt. And I was like, ooh, so cool. I was like, I love volleyball too. And then I noticed that she had a hearing aid. And I I'm pretty sure I just went on a whim and just signed something to you, like not even knowing, because um, correct me if I'm wrong, Sarah, but like a lot of people who have hearing aids don't necessarily know sign language, right? So I I think I just went on a whim. I'm like, maybe she knows ASL. And I had studied ASL in college. So I did know ASL prior to meeting Sarah, but hadn't um really, you know, practiced it on the daily. I had been out of college for a while at that point. So I was really like scrapping together pieces that I had remembered. Um, and it was like volleyball, sign language, instant meant to connect collide.
SPEAKER_00:It was meant to be, oh, cool. So, okay, so Sarah, this is a motherhood podcast. And I want to talk about your mom because it sounds like she was kind of pivotal in creating, you know, helping you to become the woman you are today. Can you tell me about her and also about her quote that kind of got you through the tough times?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. I can take all the time I want to talk about my mom. My mom is the most amazing, resilient mama lion, um, one of my vegetables and my vegetables in my upbringing. Um, so growing up, I wasn't born deaf. I became deaf at the age of three, as you read in the bio, because of a surgeon error. And with that, uh, it caused a right-faced paralysis and it caused deafness in my uh ears. I already had hearing loss to when I was born, but it completely got rid of my hearing on the right side. And my mom fought tooth and nail, sued the doctors, malpractice. She was resilient in that. And in my upbringing, I went to a private school that uh did not have sign language, had no access to anything. Great school. Um, but because I couldn't understand the teacher, they wanted to hold me back another year in first grade. And my mom's like, no. And I would rem I remembered going home being to my parents, like, I'm the dumbest one in class. I can't understand anything. I don't know what to do. I just was this was very debilitating. And then my mom researched, and my mom is a researcher, so she researched and researched and tried to find the best school for me. And she found a school in Burbank that had what was called a tripod program, which means that we had teachers that spoke and signed in the classroom, and there were death hearing and hard-hearing students all integrated in the classroom. It was a beautiful thing. But we didn't live in Burbank at the time. We lived in North Hollywood, so it was a completely different school district. So my mom called and said, Hey, can we check out your school? And they said, Well, where do you live? And my mom was like, North Hollywood. They said, We can't even talk to you and hung up with my mom. So my mom, being my mom that she is, decided to use a friend's address in Burbank to get in the in. And so we were able to get into the Burbank tripod program and then eventually moved to Burbank for me to be able to go to this school. And this school was an amazing school. It was kind of like a foreign language immersion program for the non-deaf students, and it was a completely sought-after program. And I remember walking into that school, I was very scared. But by the time I got out, I went from being the dumbest one in class to being a leader. And my parents and my mom, her quote of like allowing me to remind my worth was Sarah, I don't know why you have a crooked smile, and I don't know why you wear a hearing aid, but this is your journey. Let's see what we can do with it. And like that quote that my mom has taught me has been still to this day, I've tattooed on the side of my rib to push the boundaries and break the boundaries. And so I give everything I have to my mom for that.
SPEAKER_00:Man, she was scrappy. I mean, I bet she still is. But just as a mom myself, I'm just like, this reminds me of the importance to advocate for your child. There are so many times an expert or a medical professional or an educational professional will tell you what is or what has to be. And as moms, no, we are the authority and we get to break limits. You know, your mom broke some rules. You know, it's like you got to crack a couple eggs, what's that saying to make an omelet? Your dad did that. Oh, I love that so much. So, Sarah, you're gorgeous and you have this unique smile, but I'm sure that you didn't always feel confident in that. What was it like for you growing up? Um, what was what was the reaction from other people when you were a little kid? And how did that kind of shape your self-image?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so growing up was an interesting experience for me. Again, with a quote like, This is your journey, let's see what we can do with it. My parents have always instilled in me to never have like a pity party. And so my smile has always made me unique, and also my deaf identity has always made me unique. So grappling with both identities is a very interesting journey as a little kid. Um, I remember when I was in the private school, I actually had a surgery in first grade or the year before that kindergarten. And I had like a hook in my mouth, and I had to pick up paperwork from school. And I remember I went with my mom and walked into the classroom and just eyes on me. And it I just felt like I wanted to crawl into a hole and I didn't want to be seen. I didn't want to, I didn't want anyone to look at me. And it was just isolating in that way for me to try to figure out how to navigate a physical disability and a physical difference. And also being deaf on top of it, which is an invisible disability, is also a harder thing to navigate. So I always kind of, even though I went to a school that changed my life, as you go to middle school, you start getting bullies and you start getting made fun of. And for me, my deafness, I could kind of suppress because I could be hearing passing or not deaf passing because I can speak. And so my physical difference is what I was the most insecure about. And I remember that I had a bully who I had to learn how to self-advocate for myself. Again, thanks to my mama. Um, there was a bully who would do some very inappropriate things to me, and I would tell my mom, and she was like, Well, how are you gonna fight for yourself? And how are we gonna approach this? And so I sat there and I wrote a little letter to my principal, and I my mom took me to walk to the principal's office and I explained my story, and she let me be independent, and we got the kid excelled for um what he did, and it also taught me about resilience and standing up for myself. And my mom also always said, like walk in grace and dignity, and so I always tried to live like that. And as I've gotten older with with my disability and stuff, it becomes in my physical differences, it becomes more of an educational conversation and dialogue for those that don't know what that is or what that looks like, and so I just take it a day at a time.
SPEAKER_00:I love too that your mom never treated you like a victim, or like my poor baby, and she didn't stand up for you. She empowered you to stand up for yourself. So, oh my gosh. And how in other ways, how did she speak to you? I'm just thinking, like, you know, as parents and moms listening to this, just trying to glean, glean some of those pearls of wisdom. Like, what are some of the things she would do and how would she speak to you?
SPEAKER_01:How much time do you have if literally that's another book waiting to happen, right? The pearls of wisdom act. Um honestly. So my mom never said no to the things that I was passionate about. She threw me in all the different sports I wanted to be a part of. She threw me into art classes, dance classes. She allowed me to explore things. She was like, No, you can't do that because you're deaf, or no, you can't do that because you're not artistic. She allowed me to try everything that my heart desired to see what stuck for me and allowed me to find my own passion. And by doing that and putting me in so many different things and exposing me to so many different things and not hiding hiding me away or sh or getting rid of what I am and shielding people from it, she allowed, she put me in everything. And so it allowed me to really deal with a lot of different types of people, to stand up for myself, to be exposed to different sports and adventures. And in that, I found leadership, I found humor, I found myself in it. And so my mom just has always allowed me to go on a journey that I needed to go on and kind of like navigate me in that way, which was just such a beautiful thing that not many people have the ability to do. And she also, one of the biggest things too is when choosing the school, she didn't want to choose because oftentimes parents who have a deaf or hard-of-hearing child want to choose the language for them to learn, which is more often than not the spoken language. My mom did not want to make the decision for me. So she put me in the school that had both sign language and the spoken language and English. She allowed me to learn my native language, my culture, which is a deaf culture. Full access, she allowed me to be me without worrying about having to understand people or like having to hear everybody. Like she gave me full access, which was changed my life.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. So it sounds, well, twofold. The first part that you were talking about, it sounds like she just let you be a kid, you know, like dance, play sports, go do this, go do that. Not again, treating you like a victim or like you're different, but just like, hey, go explore because that's what kids do. And I love that. So that's so great. Okay, last question. We're kind of um building the foundation of your experience. Did you ever see anyone like you or anyone with differences in books or on TV when you were growing up?
SPEAKER_01:When I came to a facial difference, no. I've never seen anyone that looked like me on TV. And growing up, so most of my parents are in the industry. My dad's an actor, my mom uh was an actress, now she's a writer, producer, director. Uh I love the industry, but I never thought I could be a part of it because I never saw anybody like me. And so I threw myself in other things and I wanted to be a makeup artist because I thought at least I can be a part of the industry in that way. And then my dad was the one that actually got me an opportunity to audition for a role. And I was like, wait, what? Me? We want we want to meet audition? I'm like, okay, great, sure. Um, went into audition and realized I want to be the first. I want to break that glass ceiling.
SPEAKER_00:Come on.
SPEAKER_01:This is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to act. I've always wanted to inspire, I've always wanted to make an impact on this world. And I feel like acting allowed me to do that in a way that I get to create art and a story and an ability to be like having a little girl that looked like me on like watching me on TV is like a dream come true. So growing up, I never had that, and I would love to be that for other people.
SPEAKER_00:That's incredible. We talk a lot on this podcast about how specifically women, but many of us need to see something. We need permission before we go after something. And I love that you were like, no, wait, I'm gonna just do this. I love that it was like you didn't need to see someone like you or someone with differences. You made that choice for yourself, and that is so empowering. Okay, so let's fast forward now. Caitlin, where did the idea for the book come from? And what was the whole process like creating this book? And tell us about it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So it we were literally sitting sitting on Sarah's couch in her apartment, and she had said the she had been telling me about like something, the girl with the crooked smile. Like she said it. I don't know if in what context it was specifically. My mom. And yeah, her mom. I know that your her mom helped shape that line as well. And I was like, I mean, it was it was instant, instant. And I was like, that needs to be the title of a children's book. And for years, I mean, just coming back into songwriting, that was my huge part of my life for a really long time. Um, I hadn't written songs, obviously, when I made the transition into stunt performance, um, but I still wrote, I still did a lot of poetry, I still like you know journaled all that stuff. And I had written a I had written a children's book previously that I didn't publish. It was just kind of shelved in my own, you know, world. And then when I heard this, I was like, if I'm gonna do a children's book, that's the title and that's the launch pad for me, like as a writer. Because like not only is Sarah's story absolutely incredible, um, but I knew because of how close we were. It was it was honestly also like, is this just another way for me to spend more time with my bestie? Yes, it is. Like, why not? We are we're both in the industry. This is both uh something that we hadn't tapped into yet, a part of the industry. Um, and Sarah and I are both in agreement that we are gonna have our our foot in every part of the industry as much as possible. Um, and that's the beauty of the entertainment business, is it's not just one-sided. Like, so many actors also go into writing, and writers go and directing, you know, and so on and so forth. Um, I know a lot of stunt performers who go acting and vice versa. So it's really cool how fluid the industry is and how welcoming it is for people to expand their creative abilities. Um, so the second I heard the title, it was instant. I was like, that's a children's book. And I asked her, I said, would you allow me to write a book that's inspired by your life? Because I know that's another facet of being vulnerable, of um tapping into, you know, uh not only a younger generation, but this book is also for parents. That was something that we really wanted to make sure, and that's why I love we're talking about her mom and her upbringing, because it also helps give narrative to the parents of like, hey, if your kid has a physical difference or a disability of any kind, it's like you should you should pedestal them even more. It's not even like don't don't hide them, celebrate them because the world is mean enough. The last thing we need is our biggest support system at home is to try and you know shy away from certain things. So um when Sarah said absolutely, there was no hesitation from her either, she said, let's do it. Um and I started writing. And the first draft, I wrote it about two and a half years ago was the first draft. Um first draft, I read it back and I'm like, this is a screenplay. This reads like a screenplay. And I was like, that makes sense. I've been in the film industry for X or X amount of years. It's like okay, I gotta, I gotta keep writing, figure out the format, everything. And I, you know, third, fourth draft, I ended up landing on like the whole book rhymes. I was heavily influenced by Dr. Seuss when I was a kid and in my writing, also with songs, everything usually rhymes. So I was like, I'm just gonna stick with what I know. That's the route I went. And every time I came up with a new line, a new page, I would send it to Sarah and say, Hey, like, does this resonate with you? Does this make sense to you? Do I need to change a word? And there were times that she came back, like, hey, like if you could change that one word, it would help be more inclusive for the deaf community. Since we wanted this book to be evenly accessible to both the deaf community and hearing, it's not a hearing book that some deaf kids can have access to, you know, if their parents might be hearing or whatever. It's like we wanted everybody to be included. So she was obviously that my biggest asset uh when it came to making sure the little details were really fine tuned and parents of a deaf or hard of hearing child or A child who is deaf or hard of healing will notice those little nuances in the book of like, oh my gosh, wow, they they paid attention, or somebody made sure that my world was properly represented. Um so that's why it really was a collaborative effort. And I would sit and talk with Sarah, I'd be like, Hey, tell me a story about, you know, this experience in your life, or hey, did your parents ever do this? Um, and she would just share. And I would just, you know, just be documenting or taking notes. And uh yeah, and then here we are. Two and a half years later, it's on the show, it's it's out for the world. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's incredible. You know, one thing I love about both of you is like you cannot put you in a box. Like seriously. You're doing all these things from volleyball to directing to acting to stun performing now children's books. And I love that because I think we like generally as a society, we like to put people in little boxes because it's easier to label like, oh, you're this, you're that. And so there was an Instagram trend actually maybe like a few months ago where it's like, oh, you're this, and you're this, and you're this. And I loved it because I'm like, who is just one thing? Nobody. So I love that you guys are like, we're gonna tackle the entire entertainment industry, we're just gonna do all everything as much as we can. I love it.
SPEAKER_01:And that's what and that's what we talked about with the book, too, because the book is the girl with a crooked smile. And I originally, when we were talking about the book, it was like there's so many parts to my identity. I am yeah, I have a crooked smile, I am half Latina, half white, I'm all these different intersectionalities of my identity. I'm a woman, I'm an athlete, like I'm and so how do we like make this clear for children? So we wanted the first book to just focus on my crooked smile and what the facial difference brought to the table. But I didn't want to neglect my other identity. So we sprinkled it, kind of like Easter eggs for audiences who are deaf or who have somebody in their family or friend group who is deaf and be like, wait, is that a hearing aid? Oh wait, that's an Easter egg. Oh wait, that's me. Even though it doesn't necessarily talk about it. But uh that was one of the biggest things that I really wanted to do because I also grapple with like different parts of my identity and how to highlight it and which ones are at the focal point or how it can, it just becomes so complicated. Yeah. And so this book was just one of the ways that I can show this one side in the for this book.
SPEAKER_02:It's been pretty cool to also through this experience, like our friendship has grown so much deeper, right? Like Sarah was very open. There's no the best thing about her is there's no stupid question. I think we'll get to that later, but like literally, there's no from anybody, you could be a complete stranger on the sidewalk and you could walk up to her and ask her a silly question, and she's so open about it. Um excuse me. But what we came to find out also is like we came from such different, or we are part of such different worlds, but our upbringings, our parents, are so similar in the sense of like my my parents said the same thing to me, like, oh, you you could do anything you want to do. Like the best example I can give is five years ago. I can't I grew up in Arizona, I'm from Minnesota, like never really did snow sports though. I was always team sport and whatever. And I was going up to Big Bear one winter. My dad calls me. He's like, What are you doing? Kate? I was like, Oh dad, man, I'm going up to Big Bear because I need to get some reps on the slopes because I've got the X games next week, and I really have to make sure I'm dialed in. And my dad, in all seriousness, is like, well, sweetheart, is that is that something that I can come support you in? Like, is that and I'm like, Dad, I've never snowboarded a day in my life. Like, what do you talk about? He goes, Well, I don't know. I think you can just do anything. But it's like he to this day, like truly, and he loves Sarah. Sarah's his third daughter, like truly.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, Gary.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like um, but both of our parents and getting to know her parents as well and her getting to know my parents, it's like we had this beautiful opportunity. We were very lucky. This is such a blessing when you have two parents who really are fully invested into their child and really championing them to be whatever they want to be. Um, so we got to connect on that as well of like, oh, you had that experience with your parents. Oh, so did I. Even though we had different backgrounds, uh, you know, different schooling, different language. Um, so it allowed us to see, like, wow, we we are even more alike than you know, we thought. And that's a message that we really want to get out to the world of like we have so much more in common than we do, difference from, you know, the person on the street to, you know, somebody you meet in school, like our commonalities are everywhere, and we just have to be adamant about focusing on those rather than what makes us totally different.
SPEAKER_00:That's amazing. It also seems like as you're talking about each other, I'm like, you guys were meant to find each other. Do you ever feel like that? Like, yeah, we're like perfect for each other. It's also great what Caitlin was saying about you, Sarah, how anybody can walk up to you and ask you a question on the street. It that goes back to what your mom would tell you, walk with grace. And I think that's so helpful because a lot of the resistance I think we see is not like malicious, it's more ignorance. And so people like you who are an open book and say, you know, ask me anything. I also interviewed a lady on the podcast who had a limb difference, and she is the same way. She's like, come ask me anything. And and she said, Oh, the sweetest story. She was in Target. And this mom came up to her and was like, um, is there any way you could talk to my daughter? And she was like, Oh, sure. And I guess the daughter also had the same limb difference. They were missing the same arm. And after they talked and she said, Oh, what grade are you in? Blah, blah, blah. Okay, see ya. And then the mom just said, Can I just hug you? Like, thank you so much. And she said, The biggest thing I worry about is like, is she gonna find love? Is she gonna have babies? And my friend has, you know, five kids, a great husband, and she was like, Oh my gosh, anything's possible for her. And she just started crying. And she was just like, you know, being that open shows other people what's possible and it helps us to eliminate those barriers. And so I love that you're not protective over those parts of yourself, and you're like, sure, come on in, let's do this together, let's talk about it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and that was one of the biggest things, again, my mother, I'll always revert back to my mother's. She has so many, we call her name's Lori. We have a lot of Loriisms that we use in this family, in my family. And one of them is she always told me you don't have the control to control other people, but you have the control to on how you feel and how you handle things. And so you can't control what other people say or do, but you can control how you respond. And I'll just give one of the stories where I it's kind of an example when I was doing so I was doing league trips in New York at the Lincoln Center, and I went to like a food truck area, and I went, I went up to this, I went up to this um stand and started ordering my food, and this the worker kept on staring at me. And I said, Are you are you okay? She was like, he was like, Are you are you are you having a stroke? What's wrong with your face? Like, do I need what's happening? And in that moment, I was like, Oh, uh, this is this is just how my face is, but like I appreciate your concern, like trying to eat the situation. And for me, it's it's always about trying there's a staying where it's gonna be like most truths are correct, in the sense of like he was genuinely worried. It wasn't coming from a mean place, a rough place, a malicious place. It was out of genuine concern. But at the same time, the way it affected me, it was a reminder that oh, I'm not normal. Because I don't I wake up every day and I'm just Sarah I'm just me. I don't know. Exactly. And so that's nine point. It's like there is no such thing as normal. And so, but it still took me at back and it was a good reminder that I was like, whoa, I'm feeling this way, but he also feels this way. Both truths are correct. And I'm but I also don't want to, I don't want to yell at him for what he said. It's not his fault. He didn't know. He probably never met somebody who had a facial paralysis. And so I can either yell at him and make him scared and nervous and afraid to ask or step in, or I can be like, no, this is just how my face is that I like thank you so much for your concern. I really appreciate it. And I can still process my own feelings on my own time. Um, but more often than not, I get a lot of interesting questions, which is why I have my podcast with my other best friend called What the Deaf, um, where we get a lot of crazy questions that um I love answering because people just don't know. And that's okay to not know.
SPEAKER_00:That's so loving. I love that so much. So tell me, as you guys have been promoting this book, The Girl with the Crooked Smile, what are some of the responses you're getting? And specifically, I'm interested in if you have talked to children and parents who have read the book, what are they saying to you?
SPEAKER_02:Um, yeah, the support has been unbelievable. Um, when we opened up the book for pre-orders, it was a pretty nice floodgate for us to see. And uh a lot of that has, I mean, our sphere of influence just because of the industries we're in is pretty big. Um so like not only our vol our mutual volleyball connection, like Sarah playing for the national team, I coach uh down in San Diego for high school in one of the top clubs in the nation. And you know, and then both of us being in the entertainment business, it was pretty cool um to see our friends, extended friends, extended family, and everybody to just be so stoked on this new venture. Even my friends who don't know Sarah, some of them do, but who don't know Sarah, and I would just talk about the story. They're like, I have to have this book. And they don't even have kids. It was one of those, like they they just know. I think Sarah and I have had the blessing of creating a really good reputation for ourselves of not only just being um creatives, like in the creative realm, but being people who care about other people. Um, like we really do both have hearts of service. And so when they heard children's book, they were just like, they already knew. They're like, okay, I don't know necessarily what it's about. I've never seen a single page, never seen the illustrations, but we want to get behind you and back this venture because there needs to be more um books out there that are serving a positive message. I think one of the biggest differences about our children's book versus other picture books that have come out. Um, it's pretty common to have the main character have a difference, whether it's curly hair or a lot of freckles or super short or something, you know, the main character has a has a physical difference. Um, and the narrative of the book is usually the main character finding their confidence through the pages, maybe being influenced by parents or other friends, telling them, like, hey, you know, you're beautiful, like whatever. And then by the end of the book, they love themselves and everybody is behind them. And I was like, that's awesome. But Sarah's story is totally different because she didn't go through that phase of being a victim and being uncomfortable. Like she was uncomfortable, but she didn't let that hinder herself from achievement. So I was like, what will it look like to have a children's book where the main character who has the difference is the one inspiring? Is the one like going around and telling everybody else, like, hey, no, like our beauty, our differences are beautiful. Um, so we I loved playing around with that idea of like, no, our main character is champion right out the gate. Like, she doesn't need to find herself, she knows who she is, and she's gonna not only influence children of her own age, but throughout the book, she encounters adults and she changes their world as well as well by sharing her smile. Um, so that was a that's a really cool uh narrative line that goes throughout the pages that I'm I'm really excited for people to you know latch on to.
SPEAKER_01:And we just got all the pre-orders and they're at Caitlin's house, and I'm gonna be hustling over tomorrow, actually, to be signing all the books. So we're all the pre-orders are um we just got done with all the pre-orders, and so we are gonna be hand signing every book and delivering them all, and then we're gonna finally see everybody get their hands on these books, which I'm so excited. And one of the coolest things about this book that was so important to me is on the back side of the page there'll be a QR code that everybody can scan and see the story signed in ASL, which is beautiful. Caitlin's doing the voiceover work, and then I'm actually signing the book. And yeah, so this has been such a teen effort. It's been such a beautiful thing. We've had so much wonderful support from our family. And I have I just haven't told my parents a lot about it because I want them to be so surprised that there's some little sprinkles of my parents in there, my mom, especially. My parents too, yeah. Yeah, we're so excited for everybody to get their hands on this book.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, you guys, there's so many questions I want to ask, but I can't remember who said it, but somebody said first book. So are you thinking of more books?
SPEAKER_01:Wow, you're very observant.
SPEAKER_02:Thousand percent.
SPEAKER_03:Thousand percent.
SPEAKER_02:This this series is it's written as a three-book series. Um so yes, Lana's journey, Lana is the name of the character, the main character of the book. Um her journey does not stop with this book. So um, yeah, we kind of already have some outlines and some thoughts of how we already have the titles of the second and the third book, and now kind of fine-tuning. And a lot of that actually is gonna it might change over time, but as this book releases and we see the response from the audience, um, you know, we're playing around with some narratives for those books, and it'll be like, you know, when it happens, we're gonna be like, hey Sarah, where are you at in your life? What chapter are you in? What do you want to focus on? What message do you want to give out? And then I take that information and go, you know, write the book accordingly. So yes, there will be there will be more of this. All of them, right?
SPEAKER_01:And that's what we were talking about when we were talking about how we were approaching this book. It's because there's so many layers of somebody's identity and how do we put it all in one children's book? And I was like, why don't we why don't we separate everything and then focus on one identity and spotlight it and show showcase that for children alike to enjoy and go on the journey with Lana.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. So, Sarah, what would it have meant to you to have a book like this when you were growing up?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it would have been everything. If I had a book where I saw somebody who looked like me, it would just be it's such a reminder that I'm not alone. And that I can go on this journey that's called life, and that I feel recognized and and appreciated for my differences. And yes, I had that book when I was a kid. It would be, I would probably buy like 10 of those and like just read that everywhere and have it in my house. Uh it would probably be worn down. But yeah, it would have been meant the world to me if I had something like that.
SPEAKER_00:And Caitlin, we're talking about representation. I've titled this episode Representation. Can you talk a little bit about what that means to you and not only how vital it is, but also how do we achieve that? Like, what do we need to do as a society, as a government? Like, what do you see happening that that starts to shift?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, um, I mean, I have what we'll call the privilege of being like basic white girls. Honestly, like I'm, you know, blonde hair, blue eyes, pale skin, like never, I've only once in my life ever felt where I was pigeonholed because of uh, you know, a societal difference, and it was very slim to none. And I remember that feeling very specifically, like, holy cow, people go through this on a really grand scale all the time. And I would I and I hated it. And I was like, man, my this is so my experience was so minor. Um, and but there are people who go through this on a major scale every single day. Um, I mean, I uh my my love for people, um, for cultures and communities all over the world, honestly, just comes from being a kid and and being a Christian. Um, to be honest, my faith is such a huge part of my life. Um and that's where my heart of service for me particularly comes from is Jesus loved everybody, and that's my job, you know, is and it's not my my role to discriminate, to judge on their decisions, on their physical attributes, on anything because God made everybody perfect in their own way. And um, I I truly believe that. I truly believe that. So that's where like I fell in love with sign language in college, and I'm like, wow, this is just another way for me to communicate with people that I didn't grow up around. I didn't know a single deaf person growing up. But my choice to do ASL in college was because I was so tired of taking Spanish. I was like, I need something else. I took ASL and I fell in love with it because I loved movement, like I was an athlete just like Sarah, you know, and I loved to dance, and it felt like another form of creative movement to me, with the bonus of being able to communicate in another language. Um, so that's when I really fell in love with, fell in love with it, and I really fell in love with it when I met Sarah, honestly, because I I was able to continue to practice it, but really I didn't learn a ton about deaf culture. You learn the language, but you don't learn about the culture and what that means and the inaccessibility that to this day the deaf community still has. And it I can't imagine how frustrating it is for people who are part of the deaf community because it's so frustrating to me as a hearing person, where it's like our society has every capability to change it, but they're so reluctant to do so because it's not convenient, it's not like the microwave instant, oh yeah, it'll take two seconds to fix. It does take work and it does take people who have passion, but it needs to take people from both sides of the line. It can't just be someone who's in the deaf community trying to pull strings because in reality, our country and our world isn't run by the deaf community. The majority is the hearing community, so we need to find people who love um bridging gaps um and advocating for a community that might not be necessarily their own, but they recognize how beautiful it is. So that's why, like, I mean, I I Sarah has told me so many times of you know, she can be more specific on this, but things that are basic for us as a hearing community that we have that we don't even think about that aren't supplied or recognized for the deaf community. And my every time she tells me something new, like I learned something new all the time, my jaw just drops to the floor. And I'm like, how has this not been changed? How has this not happened? And on a grander scale, this book, we want to have start conversations about that stuff, right? Like we want to be able to have this gap bridged and And you know, the hearing world learn more about the deaf culture and um inclusion and how can we really just become one society rather than always trying to pocket people like you belong over there because of X, Y, and Z. Nope, you belong over there because X, Y, and Z. Um, so there's a lot that needs to be changed, and Sarah can speak more specifically to it because you know, and maybe she'll want to pick a few, but there are some where I'm like, wait, I didn't even realize that that wasn't accepted that you guys don't have access to that.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, Sarah, do you want to tell us a few of those?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, Caitlin, first of all, I'm eating well spoken, like that was I was thinking the same thing with well spoken. Um, yeah, it just it's it's minor things. It's again, there's not one right way to be deaf in this world. So there are deaf people who only use sign language as their main source of language or where they cannot read lips and they can't do anything like that. There are people who have hearing loss and wear hearing aids but don't know sign language. There are deaf people who are like me who can speak and can hear and can sign. So there's such a spectrum of deaf identities that I feel like people who don't really know the deaf community or the deaf world only think of deaf as one thing. And so with that, there's a lot of assumptions that are made. And I mean, the biggest one of the things that is a constant thing is social media, a lot of people don't caption their videos. And so that is completely inaccessible for the deaf community. And we're in the year 2025 where Instagram has made it so easy to caption your videos. There's apps that you can caption. And for us as a community, we try so hard to make our captions accessible. And we have to manually type our captions, but we still do it because it's access while hearing your voice will automatically translate it. And so it's it's such a convenience, and yet it still doesn't happen. And it's just small things like that that is interesting, or like when we go to the movie theaters, we have to go to a separate booth to get a device, a closed captioning device that we have to put in our cup holders, which by the way, which means we can't put our drinks in our cup holders. It's a small thing. But um, it's a big thing. And I have the big old jug of Coke Zero right. Um also those those captioning devices, nine times out of ten, don't work. Yeah. And or the battery dies, or it becomes this thing where you have to like try to figure it out. In in a beautiful world, open captions, which means that we go to the movies and the captions are already on the screen for everybody. And it's not only deaf people that watch cheesy with closed captions, it's human people that also watch it. But it becomes an inconvenience for people to be like, I don't want to see the captions on the screen without thinking, well, we're also providing access for those who want to feel normal and feel like a part of society. So there's small things, and I can go on with all that, but just yeah, those kinds of stuff you don't even think about.
SPEAKER_02:Like one one thing I was thinking about, Sarah, remember um you were telling me about commercials. So obviously, Sarah and I both being in uh the film industry, right? And I've done commercials as a snunt person, actors do commercials, like all this kind of stuff. Um, and I'm hoping I'm gonna uh remember this correctly, Sarah, but correct me if I'm wrong. That, you know, when a film goes on TV or Netflix or any streaming platform, whatever, or in the movies, you have the option to click captions, like close captions if you want them. Um commercials are not required to even supply them for an option. So you can't, so if you're watching TV or a streaming service and a commercial comes on for whatever cellular device, you know, there's no option for the deaf community to click and have captions. So they totally lose out on what the commercial is about. The Super Bowl?
SPEAKER_01:Where the commercials are everything? Yeah. Most often it's not captioned. Yeah, that's a that's another thing. It's just a small, so we just watch the screen and not know. You're like, oh, cool picture. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:It's just bad business. Like you're missing out on a whole market. You can thousand percent. So okay, crazy. Um, okay, so Sarah, tell me what advice would you give to young kids who either have a facial disability, uh a limb difference, some sort of difference, or are deaf and are growing up with that right now.
SPEAKER_01:Oh honestly, like my mom would say, I don't know why you have this special gift, but this is your journey. Let's see what we can do with it. That is one of the biggest advice that I had. The other thoughts that I would have is love yourself as you are. Like your differences is what makes you unique. Your differences are what makes your story beautiful and kind. And it allows you to start amazing, beautiful dialogue with the world. The world deserves to know your story and to not shy away from it. I always say that everybody has a story, no matter what their differences are. Everyone goes through obstacles, everyone goes through their journey, embrace it, go through it, walk with dignity, and find your people to support you through all that.
SPEAKER_02:I want to like tag on to that. Um because if I were to give kids deaf or hearing alike, um a one word, it would be to embrace. Because I feel especially like your sphere of influence, like as parents, you know, you you're trying to mold your child. I'm not a parent, so I'm I'm speaking very candidly about this, but like you do. That's there's a lot of nurturing that happens. You're trying to instill all these good qualities into your child and their mental state, all these things. But so much of their time when they get into school is spent with kids who, you know, we're learning from what we see in society and and the society around us. And more often than not, when kids see something that's different, they and who haven't they haven't been exposed to it. It's natural for them to not only question it, but maybe kind of poke at it and like whatever. And if so, parents of hearing kids can really encourage their children to embrace people and kids their own age, no matter what, like don't just don't put your kid in a box in the sense either of like you're just because they look different doesn't make them any different than you, and really working on that narrative so that way when kids are in school and they're spending all this time with their peers, they're not having to fight, not only fight their own insecurities, but fight the kids and what the words that are coming out of their mouth, which are usually not uplifting. It's like if we can build children who don't see physical difference as a negativity, but rather like, okay, Sarah's facial paralysis, okay, that's just like me having blue eyes and her having brown eyes. You know, okay, I have a full smile, she has a half smile or a crooked smile, right? Like uh, you know, that she is Latina, I am white. Like that's if we can parents can help find a narrative that allows those differences to be embraced and seen kind of like how we see eye color, hair color. Um, I think kids are gonna find their confidence a lot younger and be able to um walk with head held high as they go into young adulthood and and become adults. And I I really do think Sarah is a special person and that she was her heart was very well protected. She did have incredible parents, but she did find her support system and had her own battles, but because her heart was so strong, she was able to become the person that she is now. Um, and that's not normally the case. So I do think that is rare, but I feel it's a quality that can be molded and um shaped into more kids from both cultures.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. Okay, so I am gonna do our special little thing that we do, but before we do that, Sarah, will you tell me like one of just one of the dumbest questions that you get?
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00:Uh like the most common dumb question.
SPEAKER_01:Do deaf people drive?
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. What?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a good one. Do deaf people have emotions? Sorry, I'm gonna I'm gonna keep going. Uh emotions? Engineers were the ones that asked me that question. Engineers. Do deaf people cook? Yeah, do deaf people cook. Like, why would you not cook?
SPEAKER_02:I'm telling you, if you guys listen to her podcast, What the Deaf, they have whole episodes on this, and it's you will literally be like, There is no way somebody asked that question. Somebody definitely did ask this question. It's uh it's quite revealing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Interesting. Okay, you guys. So this season I've been um taking a week or a couple weeks leading up to the interview praying for my guests, and it's been really lovely because I really do feel like by the time I even see your face, I've already fallen in love with you. But the other thing that happens is oftentimes God will give me a word for the guests, and I do feel like he's giving me a word for each of you. Would it be okay if I share it with you? Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Please. Okay. So, Caitlin, for you, I heard project, and it was a specific project, a movie that you are to produce, co-write, and star in. The genre was action. There's somebody who wants a story told as much as you do, and they will become the financier. Um, it's based on a book, and it felt really important. So keep your eyes peeled. Let me know if anything comes up. Okay, I love it.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And then Sarah. Yes. Yes, you take it. Okay, Sarah, yours was like, oh my gosh, it like I kept getting downloads and downloads, and I was like, I'm I I don't have any more space to write. Um, okay, so I'll just tell you everything. So he said, if there are things that still feel like they're not for you, it's a lie. So he said, everything you've ever wanted, God wants to give to you. Ask him and ask him again. Nothing is off limits to you. It's all available to you. He said, I see your wants, I see your needs, and I want them too. I love you. Like a good father, all he wants to do is pour out good gifts for you. So I don't know if there is one area that's closed off where like maybe I won't have that. You he wants that for you, and it's all available to you. So I'll leave that with you guys.
SPEAKER_02:I suck at that. You know what? We said 2020. Okay, so Sarah and I have done this last year, like 2024. We're like, okay, 2025 is the year for Sarah for work. Like, we we like we're like, we're gonna uncap that.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And she did. She booked some of the biggest stuff that she's ever done this year. And then we've talked more about next year, obviously, like not only with the catalyst of this book, but um some other dreams and aspirations that she's looking forward to, even on the personal side of like, okay, we're gonna um pour into that.
SPEAKER_00:We're gonna still feel on the personal side too.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like um there's no unlike my dad for Sarah right now. Like, there's literally nothing that you will not achieve that you, you know, that you go for. Yeah. Because agreed. Because, you know what? Actually, somebody told me at church, Sarah, I didn't even tell you this because they were asking about the book, blah, blah. And um, you know, I said I had been praying for you and praying for this project, and um uh I was like, yeah, so you know, she's had and her the lady's like, oh, so she's had a pretty radical life. And I was like, Yeah, he got and then she goes, That's that's how God's gonna make big chapters in her life change. He's like, they're always gonna be radical. The changes that happen in her life, they're gonna be radical because that's how she, yeah. He's like, that's how she started as a child, radical change. Um, and she's never even met you. Like, she's never met you. And she goes, but everything that's coming for her, it's gonna be radical and it's gonna be extreme, but in the best possible way. That was her word. So I'm thinking radical is the word for 2026. Let's go, radical.
SPEAKER_00:Will you guys message me if things come to fruition? I want to hear about it. Oh, absolutely. Oh, you guys are the best. Okay, before we say goodbye, can you tell everybody where to get the book, where to find you, all the things?
SPEAKER_02:Well, there are a couple ways you can go get the book. You can visit our website, which is www.thirl with the crooked smile dot com. Literally the title of the book. Um, that's where you can see uh not only some bios about us, you can see additional pictures, you can see a place to go where you can click to buy uh the book. It just has some other little you know details about us, and that's where we'll keep posting updates about future events um and work. Work with us. Work with us and a work with us tab. If you um work at a school or volleyball club, and you want to have an event where you have us come speak, not only about maybe writing adventures, but yes, Sarah's an incredible inspirational story, and you want to pair it with a volleyball clinic since we both play volleyball and coach, like we we want to bring athletes. This is like sidebar, we want to bring athletes from both communities, hearing and deaf, together in the same clinics and realize the love of the same sport can bridge that gap. And so we are really hoping to work with volleyball clubs and around the country to be able to achieve this. Um, so if you are that person or you know somebody who does that, please go to our website, click the work with us tab, let us know your dreams and aspirations and how we can help um inspire the communities around you. Uh, you can also go to Amazon and just look up the girl with the crooked smile. And the book is right there, and you can buy it on Amazon. I love it.
SPEAKER_01:And you can also follow us on Instagram as well. Uh, mine is at Sarah Tubrid and Caitlin.
SPEAKER_02:Caitlin, K-A-T-E-L-Y-N, Brooke, B R O O K E L A. Yeah. Yeah, I'll link to both of those.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much, guys, for being on. It was such a pleasure to meet you.
SPEAKER_02:Oh man, thank you so much for being our first podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, my pleasure. Oh, this has been incredible. Incredible. So glad. Bye, you guys. This has been the Den Mother Podcast. Remember, new episodes drop every Tuesday. If you enjoyed today's episode, please leave a review. It really does help. Special thanks to Jose Serna for our theme music and Katie Legou for our cover art.
